Comments on BritishBeautyBlogger: It's Blogging, Not Blagging.

I am anonymous because i am a beauty PR, working, ...

2010-01-27T13:33:57.453Z

I am anonymous because i am a beauty PR, working, currently as i type.

Beauty samples are not gifts or rights of passage - they are part of work. To sell them on for personal gain isnt right. Is it then ok to steal other things from the office to sell on ebay?

I send out samples to gain coverage - an activity that is getting harder and harder for a brand that isnt a big advertiser.

However BBB cant pick and choose which parts of our industry to support..One post suggests PRs are the enemy for approaching bloggers, another breaks an embargo set by a PR.

Totally agree with everything you say in this arti...

2010-01-16T17:37:03.713Z

Totally agree with everything you say in this article. It was definitely one of the things that jarred with me and eventually led to me becoming completely disillusioned with beauty blogs and blogging.

One minute you'd see haul" videos greedily showcasing their goody bags and two months later half the items would show up in a blog sale.

The point that "anonymous" (hmm, funny how all the snarky posts are always anon huh?) makes about this type of activity being widespread and here to stay is probably correct - and whilst they might be comfortable to "be adult" about it and push their "altruism" to one side, I was not and hence I'm not part of this 'scene" any more.

Anyway, well written and I'm glad there are still people in the blogging community with a shred of decency. I'm glad I didn't write this either because I would have been labelled a moaner and a drama queen. Hey ho.

agreed with BBB x

2010-01-15T19:06:02.483Z

agreed with BBB x

I think anonymous here misses some of the point. T...

2010-01-15T17:46:04.408Z

I think anonymous here misses some of the point. There is a degree of difference, between bloggers who write up stuff and then dispose of it how they will and blaggers who call stuff in, have no intention of writing it up or lie about their traffic statistics or employement to get products simply for personal use or financial gain.

It's obvious that if you amass thousands of products, as most in the industry do over time, that you are not going to keep them in a vast beauty closet. However, if you don't actually give the product and its PR any press (good or bad, or at the very least a follow up email stating that you can't place it) that equivalent in value to the man hours, lost retail cost and admin involved with sending out products, chasing up, cut clippings, etc., then, indeed, it's not just a lost sale, but a dent in the PR's image and less product available for proper press next time. It is an issue, whether you want to believe it or not. Yes, products, once released into the public realm, will follow a course that cannot necessarily be controlled by the brand, but, jesus... manners, personal standards and self regulation are good things to have within an industry.

And you're just a shameful piece of work hiding behind an anonymous profile. Just as bad as a blagger blogger using a fake name and title to get beauty bumpf.

If you have something to say that's worth the time and word count you put into your comment, then you should have the balls to stand behind it. Especially as you're contributing to the so-called debate you deride here. Pot and the kettle much?

Great post BBB. As a beauty PR i find it so frust...

2010-01-15T17:18:01.201Z

Great post BBB.

As a beauty PR i find it so frustrating when I see products I've sent for review (requested or not) featured within a bloggers blog sale.
It's just so darn cheeky and rude,
Especially when this whole arena sits on such tentative ground with a lot of companies who do not believe that investing time or money on digital media is worthwhile.

I know everyone has the right to do what they want with there blog and the samples that they receive but seriously have a think about the way you're portraying your fellow online writers when you're tempted to make a quick buck.

The naïveté expressed by some of the bloggers here...

2010-01-15T16:12:46.576Z

The naïveté expressed by some of the bloggers here is charming but not really rooted in the reality on the ground. Only Musing on Beauty has a realistic view of the matter. The kind of behaviour discussed here is rife within the industry and you'd be surprised how many 'top name' writers are engaged in it. Many talk openly about it to each other.
All this talk of 'ethics' and 'disrespectful' behaviour is laudable but a bit silly. At the end of the day when a sample leaves a press office it's on a journey that could take it anywhere (unless of course they request it back). And as for all this altruism, you might not realise it but many companies are not exactly thrilled about their premium products ending up in the hands of your great aunty Gladys who lives in a tower block either. What annoys them more than anything, though, is the fact that when a sample is sold a sale is lost. And you can understand that anger. It's not about the naughty bloggers/journalists behaviour. if the product gets press why should they care?
To my mind, what a journalist or blogger does with it is up to them. I utterly abhor people requesting product form PRs purely to sell but have no problem with people selling on stuff they no longer have use for. Okay, so maybe their halos will slip a little but I don't those who give everything away to friends and relatives should sit and judge. I bet some of you have given samples as presents at some point? Well, is that 'ethical'? You could tie yourself in knots debating it.
I have talked to PRs about it and many know what's going on but tolerate it as long as they get their press. if PRs want to blacklist people that's fine but all that means is another opportunity for publicity lost. Let's just be adult about all this ok?

I've never held a blog sale and I do have so m...

2010-01-14T21:42:53.088Z

I've never held a blog sale and I do have so much make-up that I won't use (some samples, used a couple of times for review), I feel really bad that it's wasting away. I actually do understand why bloggers would sell them on, we work so hard on our blogs for no payment and it probably does help in keeping your blog cost free. We get products because PR's like our blog, the blog we spend hours and hours working on. In a way, we've earned those products. But, I probably won't do a blog sale as personally I just don't have the time! And now I'm actually concerned about giving stuff away in case friends put stuff up on ebay and it gets tracked back to me. Will have to extra cautious now.

Congrats for this great post! I totally agree with...

2010-01-14T19:12:28.410Z

Congrats for this great post! I totally agree with you! I receive replies from PRs departments (is great when I receive any kind of reply, because most of them don't bother) saying that they don't have enough samples to send to every beauty blogger and some of them told me about this problem. They are unhappy cause they are sending samples or sometimes the whole quantity of product, but they don't get back reviews and even when they do, bloggers write a small review of a 100-200 characters and put 1 or 2 photos. They also don't like to see their products offered in a Giveaway, many beauty companies have this specified in their policy, but some beauty bloggers still give the products away after reviewing them.

I agree - although I think swapping is ok or donat...

2010-01-14T14:00:34.242Z

I agree - although I think swapping is ok or donating to others and they just cover postage costs.

Amy x

Great article, BBB. It's one I think that eve...

2010-01-14T13:11:39.580Z

Great article, BBB. It's one I think that every blogger (not just beauty ones) should be forced to read.

Yes, it's nice to get free stuff to blog about, but if you want to make money from blogging, there are better ways about it than abusing positions of trust.

Although I totally understand your point of view, ...

2010-01-14T13:11:35.537Z

Although I totally understand your point of view, I am going to explain my view as industrial: when I do send stuff to people in the hope they create some buzz about my products, I know I have to let go of my product. They might not talk about it, they might talk about it in a bad way and they might sell it or give it away. It's a risk I am taking.
Of course, it sucks, it's not very respectful but hey, I gave them the product, it's theirs, and it's their prerogative to use it as they want.
It's part of the game, really.

I get a lot of stuff. I mean, a lot. If I do not...

2010-01-14T12:48:19.646Z

I get a lot of stuff. I mean, a lot.

If I do not keep it myself, which is seldom the case, I give it away to blog readers and sometimes I even get a review.

I give stuff also away to younger friends, who cannot afford to buy so much stuff or are new into "beauty".

But to be honest - I swapped perfume twice. Is this already "selling"? I do not think so, it is just usual for me to swap perfume after using it for a while.

I would/will never sell anything on ebay.

BUT: I can understand some doing it, because they see it as an incoming source or maybe "payment" for their work on the blog. Bloggers do not geid paid like an editor or anone other who sells a (paper)magazine.

Still, I am a big blogger in germany, I spend a lot of time and work in it, but I am not getting rich with it, I tell you! It does not even cover the expenses for the blog, which are... high (I buy a lot for testing, because small/organic companies NEVER send stuff!).

But Bloggers will still live a while from their reputation or their income they make with ads for the next years, until blogging has established as "something" I am not quite sure yet what it is going to be.

For me it is free speech first.
And credibility. I do NOT sell that on ebay.

I'm completely new to the whole area of bloggi...

2010-01-14T11:37:29.322Z

I'm completely new to the whole area of blogging having only discovered it through staring so often at Illamasqa's website and entering in Mizz Worthy's competition as a result. I've learn't so much even in the last month! I'm just trying to get myself together and track down the sites that really took my attention over christmas. The ones that are well written, like yours and Mizz Worthys (I can see her medical training in the analitical way she approaches reveiws!). You can really tell which sites are written by people who are passionate about the products and I'm sure the PR's can see that too. It would be a great shame to have this 'new form of journalism' (I hadn't thought of it like that) compromissed.

I have to say that my explosion into all things glittery was aided and abetted a couple of years back, by a lady I was chatting to at a kids club, who turned out to be a beauty editor (for what I don't know). She gave me 3 products to try out for a gig I was going to (I don't get to many these days lol). I was overwelmed at the time and it's made a huge difference to my make up buying. Getting to try something new on a small budget was a Godsend to me at the time and I now realise cost here nothing. I'm really grateful to her all the same.

I started out writing this really against these things being sold on ebay, but writing the above I realise that this is also away for someone on a lower budget to try something out initially and therefore continuing the PR for which the sample was ment. However I do think that this should be stated in the listing and would personally prefer to see the money going to charity. Profiteering is not nice but I can't stand the thought of stuff ending up in landfil either.

I totally agree with this post and all of the comm...

2010-01-14T11:34:56.395Z

I totally agree with this post and all of the comments here.

I too can see it from a blogger and a PR perspective, as someone who crosses both worlds (not beauty PR) and feel it is simply disrespectful to sell a product you have been sent for free. It is such a shame that those that do choose to make a minor financial gain at the expense of the beauty blogger reputation.

Well said! It's called professional integrity ...

2010-01-14T10:51:54.547Z

Well said! It's called professional integrity people. Let's keep the standards up.

Ali

TOTALLY totally agree. I hold a charity beauty sal...

2010-01-14T10:20:40.762Z

TOTALLY totally agree. I hold a charity beauty sale every season, giving 100% to stated charities (last one was split between St Mungo's and my brother's memorial fund, which encourages children through sport). I always state that products have been tested (therefore aren't in perfect condition) and I take things out of boxes to discourage people selling on - but I still worry for weeks afterwards that someone will sell something on and put a black mark against my name. I have to do something with these samples, as my office isn't big enough for everything I receive - for The-Beauty-Pages.com and for three national (freelance) publications.

I have to agree with some of the comments above though... It isn't just bloggers that are doing this - far from it. I've worked for lots of publications where staff sold on their press gifts (nb - I worked mainly in fashion, so these weren't necessarily beauty samples) - some don't even try and cover it up.

Oh! I forgot to mention in my other post, people i...

2010-01-14T09:48:23.493Z

Oh! I forgot to mention in my other post, people in the beauty industry are SO the same thing so I don't think it's anything new. A few months ago I bought a load of stuff from a VERY well known beauty editor who was flogging her freebies on a private forum that I post on, she easily made 100S of pounds and went on to flog more at a car boot sale increasing her profit further ...

More often than not if people see a way of making a fast buck, then they'll take it and I'm not naive enough to think that there are plenty of people in the industry have been doing the same thing for years. Yes it's cheeky, but nothing surprises me anymore.

Thank you BBB for raising an important issue. As a...

2010-01-14T09:46:44.889Z

Thank you BBB for raising an important issue. As a PR we are very aware that there are several people within the media including bloggers and magazine journalists who often sell on press samples on ebay. Like you said we are not stupid however and have ways of tracking said products. PRs talk amongst themselves and we frequently warn each other about the people who have a habit of selling on samples. There have also been cases where legal advice has been taken and further action considered/taken against certain individuals.

I agree, it is so disrespectful and such bad etiqu...

2010-01-14T09:44:55.448Z

I agree, it is so disrespectful and such bad etiquette to sell on a product that has been given to you free of charge for review purposes or otherwise. It's like selling a gift in a sense, it's just wrong to make profit from it!

As much as I agree that some bloggers are trying to be taken as a serious avenue for writing, I do believe a lot of bloggers still do it for a bit of fun!

In my opinion the bloggers who have most fun with it, think outside the box and are creative with their blogging are the ones who are the most popular in terms of readership and 'followers' ... you can tell, the PRs love them! I think rather than trying to be journalists they connect with their readers through photographs and demonstrations of using products as well as simply just writing. This is what makes blogging what it is and makes it so appealing as a new form of brand exposure for PRs.

Interesting post. I've not seen any PR samples...

2010-01-14T09:40:04.317Z

Interesting post. I've not seen any PR samples in blog sales but I did come across an Illamasqua listing on Ebay a few wks ago by a blogger who was selling her sample(s). She had used the same pic of her hand on her blog to swatch it ..duh! LOL

If I receive anything that I can't use (i.e foundation is the wrong shade) then I'll give it away for another blogger to review or if I've used it, give it either my Mum or friends.

I didn't realise it was becoming a growing problem, but then I follow so many blogs I don't have time to look in on them all regularly, so have probably missed the culprits.

I have often thought all this, but never really sp...

2010-01-14T02:35:43.663Z

I have often thought all this, but never really spoken about it. I have seen people do this and really annoys me.

After I have tried something, if I don't like it I will often give it to a friend or family member, occasionally I'll take it to the charity shop.

I think it'd be unrealistic to expect people to keep everything they got just cos it was free, at the end of the day if you don't like it and will never use it, where's the point in keeping it, however selling it on to others is very bad. Even worse still when it's something that's been sent to quite a lot of bloggers... makes you wonder how they can actually do that?!

Good to see PR companies have cottoned on to this!

TOTALLY agree!

2010-01-13T23:55:40.448Z

TOTALLY agree!

Fab article once again! I take immense pride and ...

2010-01-13T23:12:06.715Z

Fab article once again!

I take immense pride and passion in my beauty blogging and it's a real shame that this happens and I am glad to see that you have raised this as a serious issue and concern.

I use to work in Music PR and we would be LIVID if any of the journalists started to ebay or share any of the albums we sent them for review prior to release date.

Fabulous post - I myself have noticed people selli...

2010-01-13T22:37:10.640Z

Fabulous post - I myself have noticed people selling samples they have recieved in goody bags - I know because I recieved the same samples at the same events. To me this is wrong on many levels. On one hand it is disrespectful to the companies who have given the bloggers these products for review and blogging purposes.
On the other hand, it also completely undermines the review that the blogger has written of that product. Even giving samples away in a giveaway is treading on thin ice in my opinion - It is a matter of professional curtesy to check with the person who sent the sample out surely?
At the end of the day, bloggers are trying to be recognised as a new and reputable form of media. This behaviour does nothing to support this claim , and cheapens what we are working so hard to achieve. If we want to be treated with respect by PR agencies etc, we have to treat them with respect - it is a two way street!

This really makes me cringe with embarrassment. No...

2010-01-13T22:19:06.885Z

This really makes me cringe with embarrassment. Not because it's something I do - hell no! But because when things like this happen a lot of prs will see it as a reflection of bloggers on the whole.

There are so many bloggers who work extremely hard, for nothing but the love of blogging, at forming relationships with PRs and companies so that they can find out about new products and launches.

But, in the scheme of things, beauty blogging is really still in its infancy and let's face it with most blogs it takes a great leap of faith from a pr to send out press samples. Many bloggers are not professional writers or editors; they haven't been told the processes of receiving samples and interacting with prs. The pr has no guarantee that they'll ever see a review or hear from the blogger again, and there's nobody else to ask for information.

With beauty blogging still trying to find its feet as a respected part of the media, these rogue blaggers are hugely damaging other's efforts. Blows like this can seriously knock bloggers down.

If I were a pr and consistently sent samples to bloggers only to find them being auctioned off, would I trust bloggers as a whole? Probably not.

In addition, something which I love about reading blogs is the passion that goes into it. Generally, bloggers are not in it for any money - it doesn't even cross their minds. They do it because they simply adore writing about products, sharing information and being part of a huge community with readers and other bloggers all over the world.

To find out that they're blagging products to sell off makes me feel really sad, as they're takign advantage of the situation they're in and the prs who have trusted them. If they feel that they need to blag and sell products in order to make blogging feel worth it to them, then it's a huge disappointment and very sad indeed.

Sorry for the scattered thoughts - there's too much to say!